Curse

Lux Aeterna · May 24, 2009, 03:59 AM // 03:59

99% of people who complain about build critics have extremely bad builds.

OP is evidence of this. To reiterate, EXTREMELY BAD,

Seriously learn to play.

Would kick you from party for attempting to run those.

----

Interestingly, almost everyone who uses Mo/Rt is like this: bar full of spirit spam and weak skills, terribly horribly defensive about it.

Mo/Rt almost always leads to party wipes and ignore list additions.

I've had some pretty horrible experiences with bad builds / players on Hell's Precipice.
The fact that you made it to the end of the easy campaign does NOT make you good at builds.

garethporlest18 · May 24, 2009, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Healing Hands was good in Proph. Also OP, it's not that your build is junk as much as it could be a lot better. Why gimp yourself because you want to be different??

Gun Pierson · May 24, 2009, 04:26 AM // 04:26

On a side note I would like to add that I see a lot of bad hybrid builds amongst 'unexperienced' players.

ac1inferno · May 24, 2009, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

People play different ways.

Yeah, everyone is entitled to their own play style. But if you're going to bother to try to join a group and drag them down with you, I think they have a right to complain too. If you don't like people telling you what would work better, just stick to heroes and henchman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

These so-called "critics" typically fall into three categories: Clueless scrub, bored troll, and skilled person actually trying to help you improve. Ignore the first two, but when the third type comes along, listen. You might just become a better player for it.

This. If they say it's bad and can't give a good reason other than because it's not Great on Wiki, then it's first type. If they say it's bad and resort to insults without giving any reason at all, then it's second type. Third type would say its bad and then try to explain why it is if you don't understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

What bothers me is the people who never listen, no matter how genuinely helpful someone is trying to be. News flash: There are people who are better at GW than you and me. When they're around and giving advice, drop the ego and hear them out. Too many people have this false sense of entitlement, or write off legitimate advice as "elitism".

This. What you think works could always work better.

.Xander. · May 24, 2009, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Well to be honest, you shouldnt really care about what others think about your builds. You should roll with what you think is good and whats comfortable to you. There is always gonna be people out there that are gonna "lol" and "your builds are so noob...gg", just have tough skin and get over it. I had my fair share of people telling me my builds are noobish, plus its a game anyway so it does really matter.

FoxBat · May 24, 2009, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Let's see another monk skill that removes Poison, Burning, Cripple, Deep Wound, and heals you at the same time. At a cost of only 5 energy no less.

[Restore Condition] ?

Sorry, had to be said...

byteme! · May 24, 2009, 04:57 AM // 04:57

@OP

I kinda think you shot yourself in your own foot there. Looking over your template I noticed you are mediocre at everything and excelling at nothing. Not exactly a worthwhile skill bar to say the least.

Darth The Xx · May 24, 2009, 05:05 AM // 05:05

If everybody says ur build is bad, maybe just maybe its not that everybody is out to get you ......

Kawil · May 24, 2009, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

OP, it's not that your build is junk as much as it could be a lot better. Why gimp yourself because you want to be different??

Great point there. Also, as someone has already said, you did shoot yourself in the foot by posting your build and then not really expecting it to get "critiqued".

However, I do understand your overall point of too much critiquing. It can go over the top at times but I think that "get this skill" person does need to listen and take into consideration that people use a build that they understand and know how to use (in their own mind anyway, lol). Still...a little suggestion now and then on maybe ways of improving that build should also be considered.

Gun Pierson · May 24, 2009, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

@OP

I noticed you are mediocre at everything and excelling at nothing. Not exactly a worthwhile skill bar to say the least.

That's exactly what I mean by a bad hybrid build.

bhavv · May 24, 2009, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syntheticfibers

You'd be surprised at the number of warriors with healing hands there.

Well, tbh, Healing Hands is a better elite then preservation =/.

It has a much much better chance of saving someone who is about die, and it isnt limited to area range.

pumpkin pie · May 24, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

I hate build critics, they usually are the one who die the most because they cannot stop talking during the team work and drag everyone down.

Toxic OnyX · May 24, 2009, 07:18 AM // 07:18

some ppl take the time to explain to people what is wrong with their build and some people cannot take any criticism

For instance, aurora glade zquest last night I joined a pug and get the usual ping plz, everything is fine then one of the monks ask the leader to ping, he is a ranger/necro with [apply poison][barrage][parasitic bond][charm animal][sunspear rebirth signet] cant remember the last 3 skills, so it is pointed out that he cant use poison with barrage as it drops preparations, his response? OMG n00b monk I have played a ranger for over 2 years and know what I am doing and kicked the monk

Needless to say the rest of the group left

Build critics are needed at times and some of what they say is correct, scary to think that after 2 years some people still cannot grasp even the basic problems with their build

Over the last few weeks I have noticed that pugs range from nice competent players to absolutely awful players and the mix is about 50/50, what does make me laugh is that your will see R10 cryer spammed in nearly every Z-quest and I have yet to see any cryer group run these missions, maybe ppl like the idea of actually using profession builds again?

cthulhu reborn · May 24, 2009, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Well, the OP made the mistake of making it about 2 things rather than just the one.

The first point is the one about build critics. But by showing his build as it is, he introduced the "rate my build" item in it.

I personally feel that a lot of people are too easily offended when it comes to criticism. And at the same time there are a lot of people who criticize without grounds as well.

So then the question becomes, which of the two is it here? Possibly both. However, by showing his cards (his build in other words) the OP gaves us the opportunity to see if there are grounds for criticism. And as it stands there are.

Your starting post actually shows that you do not quite grasp what's out there yet. Specifically the comment about there not being any monk skills that can do the same, even though there are plenty.
Mend Condition, Dismiss Condition, Mend Ailment, Mending Touch, Restore Condition] come to mind.
The main difference is that with the monk skills the healing tends to be conditional and with the rit skill the removal of a condition is conditional.

Now, it doesn't mean that your build will automatically fail everywhere and certainly in NM it will be ok for most purposes. But the problem in GW is that you cannot say very easily if a build works well simply by experience because your team mates can often make up for one or two weak(er) players. So you can have a fail build and still get your protector titles. Try doing the Guardian titles and we'll speak again I'd say.

If you really want to do a test to see if you can make good builds, I suggest, doing a mission like Fort Ranik or Surmia with 3 heroes in HM, including the bonus. I would say that if you can do the 4-man missions in HM in general with this character and 3 heroes, then you can say that you have a grasp of character and team builds. Call it a stress test.

In the end I hate criticism out of spite or anger, but not criticism that has a point, or as they say "constructive criticism". There is nothing wrong with learning a thing or two from other players. Now they can still be nice about it, but I do feel there are grounds for criticism when I see your build, because it can do a lot of things, but none of it very well. Just understand, that when you get to the harder areas with level 28 monsters, they do 300-400 damage with spells easily and then you need spells that can heal a lot more.

I would suspect that when you did missions like Gate of Pain, you probably had 2 healers in the party already and so your healing spells only mean that you do less damage as a party. If you were acting as one of the healers then the other healer had a lot of work. It's how it works with builds that can't decide on a function.

Now, just for reference, before people have to ask. Yes I do play Ritualists myself. I have 2 even and this is not a build I would ever play.

Xenomortis · May 24, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Suppose I pose this question instead... Is anybody else annoyed at players who think they have "epic" builds, but really do not?

Yes. It's amazing how few necros are willing to change from their SS set-up, particularly when it's come from PvX wiki.
Or an elementalist who refuses to switch from his pea-shooter of a build that is Searing Flames spamming.

I will admit I'm not very nice in my criticism. My patience in this game quickly gets whittled down to the point where I can be quite unpleasent to PUG members who bring crap builds.
But hey, things get done that way.

upier · May 24, 2009, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Yes. It's amazing how few necros are willing to change from their SS set-up, particularly when it's come from PvX wiki.
Or an elementalist who refuses to switch from his pea-shooter of a build that is Searing Flames spamming.

I actually approve of SF.
Add in cracked armour (and the Ebon damage ward) - and the damage isn't that INSANELY bad. And what it also does it provide the burning condition which a para with They're on Fire can take advantage of.
There are worse options.

Still, what also needs to be mentioned is that there are bad builds and then there are relatively bad builds. Sometimes the build might not be THAT bad, or bad even - but the party just doesn't have any use for it.
For instance - are Orders bad?
No.
Are Orders bad in a full caster team?
Yes!
If someone enters a full caster team and loads up Orders, it would probably be much more effective if we explain to him WHY he does not want to do that, rather then just telling him not to do it. While this is an extreme example - there are many things that work pretty counter productively.
And this is something that I forget quite often.

AznAndy · May 25, 2009, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Most of the time, people who know the game well only want to play with other people who play at a similar level. So if they encounter someone who runs something sub-par, it is common sense they WILL criticize it. Though, you should appreciate a fact that an experienced player tries to help your build when they do.
The only way to get better at Gw is via criticism. And if you don't get better, people won't want to play with you and you should not beg people to be in their group. Simple as that.

Totally agree with this statement, but i also agree on that you should play as you like, the game is all about YOU having fun. Make your own build, make it so darn good that it becomes a private build that no 1 has. Enjoy the game and just be yourself

Learn from crticism.

Alleji · May 25, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Or that they see that half of my hero monk's skills are Rit skills, so that means it is a junk build.

It actually does.

bhavv · May 25, 2009, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Yes. It's amazing how few necros are willing to change from their SS set-up, particularly when it's come from PvX wiki.
Or an elementalist who refuses to switch from his pea-shooter of a build that is Searing Flames spamming.

I will admit I'm not very nice in my criticism. My patience in this game quickly gets whittled down to the point where I can be quite unpleasent to PUG members who bring crap builds.
But hey, things get done that way.

OMG you did not just diss Searing Flames!!!

<--- Primary Elly for nearly 4 years, Legendary Guardian, approves 110% of having 2 Searing Flames ellys with a ToF paragon anywhere in the game that the burning condition works.

The advantage to it is that you need just two offensive skills on your bar to be able to kill stuff - SF and Glowing Gaze. Then you add your E management skills - Gole / Attunement / Aura of Res and you have 3 utility slots left over for either heals / prots / wards / PVE skills, 15e monk spells like convert hexes or extinguish fit on this bar wonderfully.

I find it even worse when people use AoE like Savannah Heat in HM. You know that the AI in HM never stands still in AoE right?

And as for necros, SS / SV plus a VoR mesmer is just epic ownage. I put SV on the N/Rt healer.

These builds are actually good in HM.

Cebe · May 25, 2009, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Is anybody else annoyed at all of the "Build Critics" out there?

There is one type of "build critic" I dislike, and that is the critic who disregards any build other than the one which deals the highest possible DPS.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why this is...people want the best. This is fair enough. I'm also in no way against builds which are universally recognised to perform "the best" either. My issue is it stagnates the community too much. I guess it's all linked to the "power creep" since Factions, really, but you see it time and time again on these forums: Someone asks for thoughts on a build which performs adequately, and within about 10 posts the topic has turned onto which of the top 2 builds in terms of DPS is "best" for that profession.

It's almost as though players using anything other than Godmode, Imbagon, Discord or MS-DB builds and the like are condemned to a lifetime of being shunned.

That being said...

Players who are playing highly substandard builds who refuse to take onboard advice are also extremely irritating. Granted, given that every build save the 'elite few' are considered "bad", it might be hard for players to understand when they have a workable (acceptable) build, or when they have a build which is so poorly designed it makes Alesia look good. Unfortunately the community seems to be going more and more this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

This is something I run across constantly, and frankly I find it very annoying. Today it happened to me 2 times. And it was with a character that has 3 different Defender titles, and several others.

Whilst I hate to put a downer on your achievements, which I'm sure you worked hard for, to many players titles are extremely easy to get and are no longer a sign of ability that maybe they once were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Let's see another monk skill that removes Poison, Burning, Cripple, Deep Wound, and heals you at the same time. At a cost of only 5 energy no less.

Someone else said it with Draw Conditions and Restore Condition, but Paragons are also very adept at condition removal with skills like Cautery Signet and "It's Just a Flesh Wound!". Condition removal is extremely commonplace, and actually, you'd need to devote a lot of your bar to Spirits for Mend Body and Soul to remove enough to compete with the skills I just listed, and devoting a lot of your bar to spirits isn't always a good use of skill slots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

you might be amazed at what some of the "unconventional builds" can do.

There are good "unconventional" builds, and bad ones, and the good ones only tend to be good in very niche situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroom

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Finally a note on this...

Your attribute points are incredibly widely spread, and you have 3 in Channeling, but still bring Painful Bond and Bloodsong. A quarter of your bar devoted to a line of magic you have only put 3 (maybe 3+1) points in doesn't seem like a very useful thing to do.

Preservation is not great as an elite really. It wont necessarily heal who you want or need it to heal, when you need it to. I'm sure there are plenty more useful skills you could take in this place. When using Spirits, either Ritual Lord or Wanderlust may be OK choices, though spirits tend to be pretty weak generally.

Given you have so many spirits there, you have no way of moving them around...have you ever considered Summon Spirits (Luxon/Kurzick PvE Skill)?

Finally, for any argument revolving around "this build got me through the game" I'm sure many people could cite various times when others completed missions with no skills - just an 11-22 damage wand and a selection of henchmen.